The Future of Cherokee

Posted by Mike Glodeck on September 2, 2008 | 75 Comments

walkable, tree lined, urban, commercial district

walkable, tree lined, urban, commercial district

Have you seen the future of Cherokee?  What did it look like?  Did you see an entertainment district?  An Arts district? A Green district? Did you see more residences on the street?  More trees?  What kind of businesses do you see?  Do you see clothing stores?  Bicycle repair shops?  Scooter retailers?  Do you see more greenery?  More public art?  More pedestrians? Do you see a farmer’s market?  A Flea market?  An outdoor bazaar?  What words would you use to describe this future?  Colorful? International? Fresh?  Funky?  Stylish?  Organic?  Liveable? Walkable?

What do you see and how can we get there?  Can we help you start up a committee to research something you’d like to see on the street?  Do you know someone who wants to open a boutique but doesn’t quite know where to start?  Do you know someone who wants to renovate a building and needs help finding the owner?  People are here to help you develop your vision for the future.  We want to see interesting things on the street and are surprisingly flexible on what we are willing to do to make that happen.

Post comments on this blog.  Come to a business association meeting.  Stop people on the street.  Go into a business and ask for help.  You will find people who are friendly and helpful and want to see knew faces and energy on the street.  Let’s make it happen.  For the future.  For yourself.  For the fun of it!


75 Comments
  1. Peter on September 5, 2008 1:33 am

    I’m into brainstorming about this. My big concern is to not let it turn into another U-City loop. That place creeps me out. It seems like it developed in a way to meet the ideals of a single entity and NOT a community. Do you know when the business association meetings are?

  2. lori on September 14, 2008 12:10 am

    Whenever I see cherokee, I think Portobello Road.
    http://flickr.com/photos/8822437@N06/539664974/

    U-City Loop, as a jumping-off point…ain’t half bad!

    Back the city.

  3. Thug on September 14, 2008 3:35 pm

    Stop cleaning up my streets. I need to sell dope somewhere

  4. nevertidy on September 15, 2008 4:48 pm

    Yo Peter: not sure when all the biz districts meet but CSBA website reports they get down
    “the third Thursday of each month from 6:00pm to 7:00pm at the Cherokee Business Incubator (2715 Cherokee Street).”

    Beware florescent lights and formal meeting procedure.

    I’m curious too about other ways to gather/share opinions & stories — whether “intentionally” or not — business meetings rarely represent the community I see when i walk around. And though Patavee turned the tide when she started beginning meetings with “one positive comment about this place”, sitting at a table is still difficult for people who are busy/have kids/have ADD ….

    To begin to envision the juicy future of Cherokee Glodeck hints at, it seems like we got to get to some primary conversations . . .
    preferably face to face . . . about wants/needs/haves/have-nots/ health…wellness…
    (T)hug, you have some ideas?

    hard to talk about ‘sustainable gardens’ when friends are still getting shot in the belly after dark on minnesota . . . for real…

    . . . pet the elephants in the room . . .

  5. Cranky on September 16, 2008 12:44 am

    I’m keeping my fingers crossed that Cherokee will grow into a progressive wonderland.

    Independent. Local. Art. Music. Diversity. Gardens. Activism. Love. Maturity. Productivity. Bicycles. Good Eats. Community.

    If everyone keeps working together, I think it’s an achievable future!

  6. Cranky on September 16, 2008 12:47 am

    Did I mention I’ll shrivel up and DIE if a Star-bucks/Bread-Co/Qdoba/Etc opens on the street.

    If nothing else, we MUST keep big-business from owning our community.

  7. the big P on September 16, 2008 12:03 pm

    Looking at the picture accompanying the post as well as the buzzwords used, I’d say this is the same rehashed idea that other yuppies throw around to virtually any underprivileged neighborhood that they happen to move in to without questioning their proto-colonialist approach that marginalizes the otherness that existed there before them. For example: there is already lots of people walking down Cherokee street. They just don’t happen to be loaded and white. They don’t need more art galleries and cafes. This is so ignorant, haven’t you leaned anything in the last ten years of this kind of economic restructuring around the country? It is racist and hierarchical.

    To people that post this kind of shit, all I have to say is:
    Die yuppie scum. I will slash your tires if I see your ass on Cherokee.

  8. Michael Sullivan on September 16, 2008 6:41 pm

    Cherokee Street, if anything, has always been dynamic. Its time worn appearance today is more the result of Wal Mart and Sam’s, rather than the irresponsibility of local residents. Change usually induces a reaction, and in this case it was flight. Cherokee Street has to figure out how to respond to the needs of our community. How about a place where I could get as inexpensive plate of pasta? There isn’t a good place for Chinese carry out within miles of here. Although I like the uniqueness of the Mexican flavor our neighborhood is developing, I can’t eat beans everyday. Where can I get a good piece of pie on Cherokee? We need more public spaces in order to share and reflect on this community that is ours. How about making some of those paved over lots into basketball courts for the kids that play in our streets? In a perfect world, I could step outside my door and get what I need right here in my own community. Sam Walton has pretty much eliminated that possibility. So we need to fill our shops and restaurants with what you can’t get in other places. I see it happening already. Whether its art supplies on the West End, Mexican pastries in the middle, or real breads on the East End, shops are popping up to fill in the voids left by the big boxes in the burbs. We live in a rich and diverse community, many of us do not see eye to eye on many issues, it is a big reason why things are difficult to improve, but we still are drawn to this area just the same. The future of Cherokee will depend on how Cherokee responds to the actual needs of its residents, rather than creating needs through the development of a Hollywood set right here on the South Side.

  9. AVD on September 17, 2008 11:50 am

    Basketball courts is a good idea… I think about that all the time when I go down the side streets. I agree with Michael… I’m all for improvements, but there are reasons I’m not in the loop or downtown or wherever – there’s a lot I like about the neighborhood already.

  10. Evan Schull on September 19, 2008 1:30 pm

    See, the thing about gentrification is that it’s bad. And the thing about ghettos is that they are worse. Those activists that romanticize the ghettos and decry any attempt to create mixed-income integrated communities with access to job opportunities, healthcare opportunites, recreation opportunities, educational opportunities, etc are every bit as bad as the artist-yuppies who want to take over a neighborhood.

    The existence of primarily black inner-city areas devoid of any opportunities is one of the primary drivers of racial disparities and remains the way that white supremacy is kept intact in a post-Civil Rights US.

    Yet, I am dismayed by the amount of new art spaces that have located on Cherokee St where the owners want nothing to do with the neighborhood as a whole, simply want to associate in their business association clique (yes Firecracker and APOP, I’m looking at you) – We have a thriving cafe and bar district a few blocks away on South Grand – Go to Mangia if you want some pasta. Shangri-La has good pie. Do we need more hip bars on Cherokee? No.

    We need locally owned shops that cater to local needs. More renewal/investment without displacement. Less cops, more community. Less abandoned properties, more homeownership. Less LRA lots full of weeds and more playgrounds.

  11. Eric Woods on September 22, 2008 10:35 am

    We’d invite anybody to come on down to Firecracker any time and find out how we’re a part of the community. We filled one of those vacant buildings Evan mentioned – fixed the leaking roof, the broken windows. And we support the local businesses that were already here when we moved in – we eat at the restaurants, buy toilet paper at the Globe Drug. Come down and let me tell you about the trash we pick up off the sidewalk everyday, or the weeds we pull in the alley when they get too tall. Many of our customers live in the neighborhood too – they order business cards from us, wedding invitations, and posters. Everyone that works here lives within walking distance of Cherokee Street and has chosen do so for many years. We don’t do it to displace anyone or because it’s cool – we do it because we’re proud of our city and our neighborhood.

  12. Hilary on September 22, 2008 4:17 pm

    Well said, Eric.

    I’m not sure what the comment above about Firecracker and APOP was supposed to mean. I really and truly don’t get it — Evan, can you elaborate?

    I mostly agree with this: “We need locally owned shops that cater to local needs. More renewal/investment without displacement. Less cops, more community. Less abandoned properties, more homeownership. Less LRA lots full of weeds and more playgrounds.”, so I don’t think I’m too far from understanding you.

    But it’s not practical or realistic that all businesses on Cherokee will be owned/run by neighborhood residents. What are you proposing should happen with empty storefronts that *aren’t* filled with businesses owned by residents of the immediately surrounding neighborhoods?

    I’m VERY happy to have both APOP and Firecracker Press in the neighborhood, and I would also love to see other small businesses move into empty storefronts on Cherokee. Beats the socks off of rent-to-own chain stores!

  13. Anonymous (I don't want a fued) on September 23, 2008 2:59 am

    Let me take a minute to respond to a couple of the issues raised by a few of the people here (I am not the original poster, Mike. I am leaving myself anonymous because I don’t really want any sort of feuding going on. We are all on the same side, if we lose sight of that we lose the street; it’s that simple):

    “Do we need more hip bars on Cherokee? No.

    We need locally owned shops that cater to local needs. More renewal/investment without displacement. Less cops, more community. Less abandoned properties, more homeownership. Less LRA lots full of weeds and more playgrounds.”

    Foam, Apop, Firecracker Press and those art galleries you mentioned haven’t displaced a single person, as far as I know. They have significantly improved the look and feel of the street. They have taken drab, neglected buildings and filled them with independent groups, associations, and businesses. Most importantly, they bring business and customers to the entire street. They spend their money locally and they add to the character and charm of an already heavily diverse street.

    I am not entirely sure what your problem is. None of the things you listed as important will actually improve the lives (especially financially) of anyone on this street. Playgrounds don’t employ people, home-ownership is hard when the tenants are broke, and you havn’t offered any commercial, industrial, or agricultural activity that would bring jobs and money to the street.

    You don’t want trendy bars? What do you want? How is it going to get there? How many people will it employ?

    Don’t get me wrong, playgrounds are great, but we do happen to have a large park and other amenities within walking distance already. I think we’re gonna need more than that to get things moving along here.

    If you don’t want displacement you better start figuring out how to get resources and education into the community so that whatever needs you are talking about can be met by those within the community.

    However, I hope you are not advocating some sort of Cherokee Street isolationism. There seems to be a sharp tone of “anti-outsiders” running through a number of posts, not just yours.

    Cherokee Street is just a street, not even a whole community. It is impossible for the needs of such a small group of people to meet all of their needs and wants. I also think some have lost sight of the fact that Saint Louis is also our community, and that someone who moves to Cherokee and sets up shop from North City, CWE, or downtown aren’t exactly aliens.

    Gentrification is a real problem, and I share the worries many of you have. However, such aggressive phobia of white, middle-class outsiders isn’t exactly well-placed or helpful.

    The best-case scenario, barring fat-chances and dreams, is welcoming middle-class whites (and other groups) to the street while using the resources they bring to help enrich the lives of others in the community. In other words, they’ll bring money and we’ll make sure it is used to better everyone’s lives; never allowing them to take over.

    “This is so ignorant, haven’t you leaned anything in the last ten years of this kind of economic restructuring around the country? It is racist and hierarchical.”

    The sad truth is African American and other inner-city poor groups do not have the resources to develop their communities to match those of affluent and middle-class whites in prosperity.

    Development on the street is going to have to come, one way or another, from white people’s pockets. Either from banks or middle-class investors and small business owners.

    Unless we get some funds from the city government (which would be gotten from the taxes levied on white businesses, of course), what precisely do you propose to develop and enrich the street?

    What jobs are you going to provide without yuppie dollars? Who are you going to be serving? Where are the money and resources going to come from?

    Before you start slashing tires you might want to understand this little dynamic:

    A yuppie from an affluent area wants some tacos.

    Yuppie goes to Cherokee Street with some yuppie money.

    Yuppie puts yuppie money in the hands of a Cherokee Street taco vendor.

    Cherokee Street taco vendor now has money.

    Taco vendor buys a doll for his daughter.

    I know why you are against yuppies; ideologically and culturally speaking I am too. However, I am not against money coming into a community that desperately needs it.

    In other words, every yuppie you scare off is also scaring away food from a needy family.

    As long as we use yuppie money and keep it from taking us over, I don’t see the issue. Until there is some sort of regional or national revolution we are going to have to deal with the fact that we need white, middle-class, yuppie dollars to survive.

    “There isn’t a good place for Chinese carry out within miles of here.”

    That’s not true, the Chinese place on the corner of Jefferson and Cherokee is actually not so bad. It is right across the street (facing) the dollar store, near save-a-lot.

    (I probably should have just made this a blog post).

  14. Lyndsey on September 23, 2008 11:44 pm

    As I read this string, I’m enjoying learning and hearing brand new takes on questions long considered. Much appreciated.

    I’m inspired by the way various people passionately/articulately phrase the need for sensitivity in development and awareness of the needs of the community as a whole.

    I’m also curious at how it’s framed primarily as white/black, or ‘yuppie/ghetto’ with $$$$$ as the only recognized currency of power. I witness many different shades of power on this street, all pretty interesting. money is just shorthand for energy. Energy comes in lotsa forms! xo

    This phrase keeps turning –
    i’m not sure i understand it fully —
    “The future of Cherokee will depend on how Cherokee responds to the actual needs of its residents, rather than creating needs through the development of a Hollywood set right here on the South Side.” -michael sullivan

    what about an independent film set documenting strategies to find and meet the actual needs?

    hmmm>>>ACTUAL NEEDS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>?

    Going door to door with a hard copy version of this blog, the “walking blog”, is one way I’ve encountered to find out more specifically what “the needs” might be….

    Every kid I meet with nothing real to do on the street reminds me of one of the greatest needs I see… . .

    Outside of visiting and interviewing at Five star senior center, grace hill, CAMP, salvation army,

    –how else can we get to the heart of what “the needs” are? & how can we have fun meeting them?

    i love tracking the progress of the newest community gardens — they seem to be meeting needs & having fun —

    As I write & read here I’m also curious as to how to continue these conversations with people who aren’t using computers to talk. . .

    at (park)ing day we skipped the talktalk & just sang a capella love songs to the ladies inside globe

    that seemed to work too
    ;)

  15. AVD on September 24, 2008 8:33 am

    Wow. Apop and Firecracker are great neighbors. But since I’m white and buy magazines from both businesses, maybe that makes me a yuppie?

    But then the folks at Liberty Wireless/Cherokee Market and the new sandwich place next door are great neighbors too. I usually wait to buy my cigarettes until I go there, a neighborhood minority owned business whose employees have always been friendly and let me know they’re there if I ever need help. Sort of like how, even if I’m already at Shop n’ Save, I can’t bring myself to buy tortillas there.

    Personalized Mementos – great neighbor. So are the ladies who live on Oregon who chased down the drunk driver who hit my car. I’ve experienced more community support, know more of my neighbors, and actually give a shit about the people around me in the area than I ever have in my life.

    Even though I try to support Cherokee businesses when I can, and I’m certainly guilty of having a drink in reputedly “hip” bars, I don’t have a lot of money to spend. I’m in the neighborhood because I was able to find the workspace I need at a price I could afford, so sure, gentrification = bad. I’d have to go elsewhere too. But there was also the added bonus appeal of being able to walk or bike to both necessities like groceries, dinner, and drug store items and social or interesting things – yeah, like art galleries, shows, restaurants, bars, good coffee and obscure publications. I understand that in some cases I can find those apparently yuppie goods elsewhere – it’s not as if I don’t ride my bike to Mangia every week – but I feel like the more numerous and diverse the businesses are, the larger the portion of my, admittedly modest, available dollars supporting the neighborhood becomes. Not to mention that pretty much every building that becomes occupied adds safety, with the presence of owners & employees during business hours, additional lighting at night, people looking out for one another, and beauty, with more people picking up trash and maintaining plants.

  16. Mark! on September 24, 2008 10:14 pm

    In this city, as in many cities, the market economy mostly gives us two choices for the fate of our neighborhoods. Neighborhoods tend to be moving in the direction of gentrification or blight. There is little opportunity for middle ground. We either see escalating housing prices, rents and property taxes leading to the displacement of low-income people and loss of cultural and economic diversity, or we see the lack of investment leading to neighborhood deterioration.

    What is the middle ground? A neighborhood that promotes and supports cultural diversity and economic differences where decision making is truly on a neighborhood level. How do we do it? We can start by creating free public spaces that encourage interaction among like and unlike people to express cultural differences while bringing us closer together. There are so many positive things we can do to create and maintain diverse livable communities. One thing that has been on my mind lately is to develop some of the empty lots on Cherokee—in particular the one at Cherokee and Texas—into multi-use parks that could include spaces for a fountain, sitting, art, a neighborhood news kiosk, basketball hoop, music area….we could seek feedback from people on Cherokee Street to see what everyone wants. Art in particular can facilitate public interaction and so can celebrations and music—so perhaps one of those paved lots that CSBA owns could be converted to a pocket park with a stage for music—all the better for ceremony and social activity. And particularly important is having spaces in this pocket park idea for youth—Our experiences at the Community Arts and Media Project have illustrated for us that kids on Cherokee really need positive social activity.

    There are certainly activities and people that put a neighborhood more at risk of gentrification and push it in that direction; however gentrification is a city-wide process that interfaces with the local and global market economy and, in that sense, it is in many ways out of our control. The point is that blighted, sacrificed neighborhoods and gentrified areas are the normal functioning of the global market economy. I try to focus my efforts working with others to reclaim decision-making power and resources on the local level.

  17. Michael Sullivan on September 24, 2008 10:15 pm

    I agree with the general thread of the Anonymous piece, however it surprises me that the author believes he/she could start a feud in the neighborhood. The feud down here has been going on for decades. Only the participants have changed. This website offers a wonderful forum to toss around ideas and establish how compatible and closely aligned our ideas actually are. (However I would be reluctant to patronize a restaurant based on a review as damning as “actually not so bad.”) I think one of the underlying concepts weaving its way through most of what is written in the posts above is a desire for justice. This is a noble and obtainable cause. It is an injustice to stereotype shopkeepers as leeches and artists as yuppies. (What decade is this anyway? I haven’t heard that word since the late 1980′s.) I admire anyone who has the strength and fortitude to open a business on Cherokee street. Our community can benefit tremendously from both their example and commerce. Although I can’t speak for all of them, the few local gallery owners that I do know have gone above and beyond the normal call of duty in their work within the community, in many other facets of their lives as well. Perhaps I’m a blockhead, but I don’t understand why gentrification evokes such hostility in people. Gentrification is not bad in and of itself, although we have seen many bad examples of it. Its negative connotation can have paralyzing effects toward any attempt at community building. You don’t need to walk very far around here to recognize the need for improved housing conditions. There are at least nine vacant buildings on my block alone. We do have a need for someone to come in and rehabilitate a significant portion of our housing stock. The conflict arises when the development becomes so expensive that people are displaced as a result. This neighborhood has always been a working class neighborhood. We need to gentrify the streets to a livable standard without forcing the core of our community to move somewhere else that is “affordable”. We have a rare and wonderful opportunity before us. There are very few areas in the entire metropolitan area that contain all the elements we posses. We have a high concentration of artists and creative types. We have an equally high concentration of people interested in politics and social justice. We have a high level of energy looking for a place to engage it. It is inexpensive to live here. We are centrally located. We have a significant amount of available housing stock. Many units have smaller floor plans that could become quite energy efficient. There are vacant lots for community gardens. I know most of my neighbors on a first name basis within a three block radius. And then there is Cherokee Street. We can use it as a conduit to bring together and redistribute all the good things that are percolating within our neighborhood. It remains a virtual blank slate. Thank you to Lindsey, for coming up with a great idea on how to establish the actual needs of our community. Maybe a community billboard or even a soapbox down around Cherokee and California would be a good way to start the dialogue for your documentary. Thanks to AVD for recognizing the importance of patronizing our local merchants. This is vital today and will become increasingly more important as new businesses arrive. The future of Cherokee street will be determined by what we learn to recognize about our needs as individuals and ourselves as a village. The little flickers of hope we see scattered from one end to the other will help us to figure out what comes next.

  18. Eric @ CAMP on September 27, 2008 12:29 am

    Well, I think this discussion is more nuanced than some of these types of discussions are, and I find myself in agreement with part of all of you – from tire-slashing to gentrification not being a bad thing in and of itself, especially in a neighborhood with a severe shortage of resources and an abundance of vacant lots.

    Still I wonder when I talk to longtime residents of the neighborhood, why they say they don’t feel comfortable going into so many of the new shops/galleries opening on Cherokee.

    Still I wonder when I go to BPW neighborhood meetings and the talk is all about calling the cops on loitering teenagers.

    Still I wonder when I see, as I did yesterday, cops stationed outside some swishy blacktie reception going on – protecting the folks inside the reception from the folks that live here apparently.

    Someone mentioned above that more people out on the streets makes them more safe – which is true to a point, but strong community ties and mutual respect, a shared sense of destiny, intertwined lives – those are what create real safety. To the extent that new businesses and more patrons from other parts of the city creates more police harassment in a part of the city that is already under police lockdown is a real problem.

    It is clear to me that a lot of the problems of urban poverty are regional problems – and require regional solutions – tax-base sharing, eliminating government fragmentation that lets suburban enclaves wall themselves off from the city, etc (or as Mark points out global issues) – so focusing on what’s happening on Cherokee Street is not really the whole issue and in some ways obscures how these things operate.

    But, still, I wonder. I wonder how decision making power remains in the hands of the community – and yes everyone posting on this blog is part of that community, but so are a lot of people whose voices are absent here in e-wonderland.

    I hear Michael and his talk about the strengths of this area loud and clear. It is clear to me, that like it or not, things are going to become a lot more localized over the next 20 years due to macroeconomic changes – We need to keep making sure everyone is at the table in terms of figuring out what we have to offer each other, and what we can build together

    Also, I think youth-designed, artist-built parks – sort of mini City Museums, would be an awesome addition to the neighborhood. Economic opportunity isn’t the only thing that makes an area livable.

    CAMP know has three choices for printing of propaganda – Creative Litho, All Along, and Firecracker – are we becoming a printing district? :)

    And let’s face it, hip bars aren’t gonna be an issue or an advantage (depending on how you view them) on this side of Cherokee as long as Schmid is around – unless the new changes to his bill are enough? I assume at least the draconian surveillance requirements and the anti-pedestrian parking space requirements have been stripped from the bill….

  19. Evan Schull on September 27, 2008 10:56 am

    Oh yeah, APOP are “great neighbors” – nothing like tongue-in-cheek references to concentration camps and eugenics and neo-nazi propaganda sales in a majority-minority neighborhood….you think people don’t notice these things? you think people on the street don’t talk about these things? you think it counters the image of white invaders coming in and taking over the neighborhood?

  20. Michael Sullivan on September 28, 2008 12:57 pm

    I agree that the distribution of Neo Nazi materials would not be in the best interest of creating a cohesive and integrated community. Sometimes these things surface in unusual ways and help us to see things for what they really are and what they really stand for. It makes us uncomfortable. Exceptional art does this for us. I am too square and out of touch to be much more than a curious voyeur regarding the product line of APOP, however attempting to control what they sell would put me in the same camp as Sarah Palin, and God help us all if that should happen. I am a long time resident of this neighborhood. I have first hand experience with what historically is among the more racially segregated cities in the country. People of color were rarely seen south of hi way 40 when I first moved to this neighborhood in the early 70’s, I can’t recall any invasion then, but I did see flight. A new population gradually moved in to refill the vacant housing left by this flight. The “invasion” that Evan speaks of today is just the second generation of that process.
    I am pressed for time today regarding the wealth of ideas that are surfacing on this page and being able to respond to them. We have a small block unit that has been meeting once a month for about three years now. Tuesday evening at the Typo Café ( 7:00 pm, 3159 Cherokee (Compton and Cherokee Street)), we plan on entering our second round of talks regarding what we can do to solve the problem of lack of places or activities for kids after school and on weekends. We will have someone from Gravois Park here to speak, along with the Alderman and neighborhood stabilization officer. I am extending an invitation to the folks at CAMP and anyone else that may be interested. We don’t want to reinvent the wheel, but it would be a great way to throw around some ideas and see what we can come up with.

  21. Eric @ CAMP on September 28, 2008 3:44 pm

    Great! We will try to send some folks and let you know what we are doing, what we have available, and what our needs are and our view of the situation – ie; we are opposed to anti-loitering laws, further police involvement in kids’ lives, etc – thanks for the invite Michael!

    As far as I’m concerned white flight is never a good thing, but it is driven by exclusionary zoning, highway spending, governmental fragmentation, urban sprawl, etc.

  22. Evan Schull on September 29, 2008 1:26 am

    Look, I’m not saying there is a white invasion on Cherokee, I’m just saying some people perceive it that way. And when people call APOP a good neighbor, and then I hear from folks on the street that “they sell some nazi klan shit in there” and then I notice that they do indeed sell white supremacist records and have tongue in cheek references to concentration camps and eugenics….You know I wonder what people’s standards for good neighbors are. Fix up a building and it doesn’t matter if you think the most blatant and gross form of white supremacy is a joke?

    I’m not talking about censoring anyone, and I’m guessing Dustin likes the publicity of being an asshat, I’m just saying people in this neighborhood talk. They know what’s going on. And sooner or later APOP is going to get a few bricks through their windows. And then they’re probably gonna call the cops, because they’re not “punks” at all, just another group of folks trying to make a buck. People don’t think that shit is funny or cute. And it doesn’t help the folks on Cherokee that are honestly invested in the community to have a record store that people in the neighborhood think is racist. That’s all I’m saying.

    Hell I’d shop at APOP if it wasn’t for the owners. They have a bunch of records I can’t find anywhere else in St Louis. Thank Jeebus for ebay.

    I apologize for the former comment about Firecracker. Just frustrated that everytime I go by their shop their shades are down like they want people “in the know” to patronize their business, but none of the “riffraff”. That was perhaps a hasty and misguided assumption. I applaud efforts at renovation of derelict buildings. And I like zines made with letterpresses.

  23. AVD on September 29, 2008 9:09 am

    Evan – Honestly, I was just sort of trying to limit my comment to my own (narrow) personal experience instead of speaking for a group or addressing anyone’s ideology. Although I understand that there are broader issues than what I may encounter day to day, I’m probably not best equipped to address those.

    I’m at Oregon between Firecracker and the Buddhists. If you (or anyone on this thread, for that matter) happen by during the evening or weekends, feel free to stop in for a cup of coffee or something. Seriously. I’ve got curtains and bars, it looks sort of isolative, but when I’m there, the door is always open figuratively, if not literally. :)

  24. Tiffany on September 29, 2008 12:58 pm

    Concerning the nonsense about my (and Dustin’s) shop, Apop Records.

    Don’t be absurd.

    This is exactly why I cannot stand being online much. ZERO ACCOUNTABILITY.
    One can spread vicious gossip, make threats to another’s property and well being, make wild accusations and idiotic generalizations until the dogs come home about anyone.
    That person never has to worry about confrontation or realizing the consequences of their glib remarks.

    It’s just this sort of knee-jerk passive-aggressive championing of fascistic conformity that drives our dedication ever onwards to provide an outlet for unpopular opinions and beliefs.

    We believe in free speech. And it is of the utmost importance to extend that right to those with the least favorable and most unpopular ideas.
    That’s why we carry the “Nazi” materials, that’s also why we carry the pro-black anti-white writings of Dr. Suzar Epps, author of “Blacked out Through The Whitewash.”
    We don’t “believe” in our materials, they are just books, cds, pamphlets etc. of extremely diverse perspectives. We feel it’s important to protect their existence from the censors and do-goody fascists.

    Hey, FYI, we have more books that fall into the black studies, black power, anti-white category in our shop. By certain persons’ erroneous reasoning, that should mean that I am also black and hate white people.

    Unlike what marketing and advertisments wish you to beilieve, you aren’t what you buy, or own.

    Do the people spreading nonsense about Apop realize how damaging this sort of trash talk is for my small business?! Do you have any fucking idea how hard we have to work to have what I think is one of the most interesting, unique and wonderful little businesses in this city, nay State?

    If I only hear this crap on open forums such as this, then it means none of the people espousing it has the nerves or forthrightness to have discussed this with me in person.

    I am more proud of Apop than anything else I’ve ever done in my life. To have narrow minded thought-police attempt to knock it down from the safety behind their computers disgusts me, for the only group of humans I truly hate to the core are those lacking integrity.

    Anyone who reads this is welcome to come talk to me at the shop during store hours. I much prefer real live discussion as oppossed to the goofy drama the inevitably arises from message boards.
    Also, if you’re one of the people I seem to be pretty peeved at, don’t worry, I don’t harbor any real ill-will, I’d just like to know why you/y’all feel the need to do things like this. It ruins my day.
    -Tiffany Minx

  25. Dustin Newman on September 29, 2008 2:01 pm

    I see my partner has already responded to the above nonsense. Just thought I’d point out we actually do not have any white power music at apop. Thats not our deal. You’ll have to find something else to whine about. Now when it comes to books as Tiffany pointed out we have Lots of titles on lots of subjects, both new and used. You’ll find lit. from the Jewish Defense League, Zionists, nazi ufologists, Black nationalist, african supremacists, capitalists, commies, homosexuals, and everything inbetween. If you have a problem with that you may also want to start calling the library racist as well. We do not have a political agenda at Apop. As far as catering to the neighborhood goes, I’m guessing you don’t actually know anything about our customers. From local neighborhood needs it seems obvious that you mean black people, which is not the only demographic in the area. People from the neighborhood often patronize our shop, as well as people that drive in from other cites, and from the county. Apop is the only shop that I know of in the area that carries a wide selection of titles from Holloway Press, the nations largest african american publisher. I guess you never noticed the rather large portait of Iceberg Slim that hung in our window for ~8 months? Such books as well as our videos, vinyl selection have been readily appreciated by “locals”. We also have a large selection of reggae, african, and other “world” music on both vinyl and cd. Apop doesn’t cater to any one group, nor do we look to exclude anyone. By opening up on Cherokee we have not displaced anyone. For the past 30 years or more record stores on cherokee have been open. I have lived within 3 miles of cherokee st for 14 yrs, minus a brief stint in Columbia mo and some traveling. Before that my family lived in north city and I often hung out in this area. This is my neighborhood. I live here, I work here. I eat at local restraunts on a daily basis, I shop at local grocery stores, get copies made, have my car worked on, etc all on cherokee st, or if not on cherokee then atleast within a few blocks from it. Maybe in the future it would be best to keep your mouth shut, until you actually know what your talking about. For anyone else Tiffany or I will glady answer any questions you may have about anything we stock. We are both more then happy to discuss such things with anyone that might ask. As for threats to our business, your right I will call the cops if someone smashes in a window. While I would prefer to retaliate with a brick to the perputrators
    face, such vigilante justice is frowned on, and no privileged white self deluded kid is worth me spending time in jail for.

  26. Evan Schull on September 29, 2008 8:00 pm

    re: APOP

    Oh please, don’t play the small business victim card. One does not have a band called Eugenics Council and release a record called “Genocide Now” with pictures of one dressed as a Nazi unless one not only invites controversy, but enjoys it and seeks purposely to provoke people. When you accomplish what you seek to do, you can’t run away and say hey please don’t badmouth us.

    You can claim you are for free speech and promotion of unpopular viewpoints all you want and say “hey, we got all sorts of stuff here, we don’t really -believe- in any of it.” But here’s a quote from Dustin’s former bandmate off her myspace front page today -

    “I do not have time or energy for those who follow the desires of a substandard race…The crack-whore-mother with who-knows-how-many-diseases-who-knows-how-many-kids/ held dearly as one of our species precious creatures. And her child will grow and die never knowing why the world isn’t available and life won’t meet the glamour he seeks. Mommy begs at the bus stop for another rock, she is wasted life and wasting life and wasted time and the whole world needs a hero to face 25 to life to get rid of her disease..”

    You be the judge of whether APOP is just an impartial champion of free speech or not.

    I could care less what ya’ll do down there, or what you think you are doing. I’m just saying people talk, and more than one person in this neighborhood has expressed real disgust and anger at the presence of APOP. And when the rest of you hold them up as an example of what kinds of businesses we want in south st louis, i kinda cringe. because appearances do matter.

    but that’s what they are all about making people cringe. so there you go APOP you get what you want. a whole derailed internet thread about you. enjoy the attention.

  27. dustin on September 30, 2008 1:04 pm

    I’m done with this. I never intended to derail this thread, though I will not stand by when some ignorant coward slanders my business. You can continue to use facsist tactics and spread half truths I don’t have the time to waste on scum like you. Your real brave when you hide behind a computer screen. If any people on the street have any questions about apop we welecome them coming in and actually talking to us.

    Quick note about the cd you mentioned it did indeed have a picture of Rosemary and I from Haloween. In poor taste? yeah sure. Racist propaganda ? Hardly. Rosemary is Jewish, and said band also had members that were asian and black. You also took two different pieces of Rosemarys writing and tried to connect them to make it appear that “substandard race” was in reference to the other wrting you quoted.

    The quote is below, and it has nothing to do with the color of ones skin.

    “I do not have time or energy for those who follow the desires of a substandard race. I will not answer incoherent, irrational, trite, manipulative, or self-serving messages from anyone.”

  28. Evan Schull on September 30, 2008 2:17 pm

    Oh please, you know you’d love nothing more than a good controversy so then you can get your “isn’t it ironic that these people that proclaim to be against fascism are being fascist in wanting to censor what we do” soundbite in and you get to play the innocent victim/heroic champion of free speech card all at once and you get lots of free publicity.

    People are more than capable if they want to follow links around on the interwebs and see what your fan base looks like – not all of them as as veiled as you in their overt support of white supremacist views. You know, “the whole character of a man by the company he keeps” thing.

    I’m against censorship in all of its forms, it’s always a slippery slope that leads nowhere good – i’m glad that fringe publishers exist that put out all sorts of subversive shit some which i agree with and some which i dont–and honestly that means i’m glad people sell the shit

    i just think people should 1) have a clear picture of exactly what they are supporting when they put money into your hands and 2) let people know that there are plenty of folks around Cherokee who have the perception – rightly or wrongly – that APOP panders to white supremacists and neo-nazis and are upset about it. notice i’m talking about a general perception here not whether its true or not.

    And geez having a band called The Eugenics Council that releases songs called Genocide Now – I mean whatever would give them that impression??? Oh I know – all tongue in cheek right? all just trying to get a rise out of people so then you can laugh at their hypocrisy.

    Go on and continue thinking you are just pushing people’s buttons and being a champion of free speech and simply reflecting the ugly sides of humanity back at itself and live out your gg allin fantasies.but not all of us find cheeky references to concentration camps as benign as you want to make them, and last time i checked librarians didn’t also dress up as Nazis for halloween and stand in the section of the library that has white power materials.

    And the rest of Rosemary’s quote speaks for itself. I’m sure there’s no implicit racial meaning when you talk about crack whores with who knows how many kids. oh wait, that just proves i have racist assumptions right – just another example of being provocative to show people where their own biases lie. cause skin color wasnt mentioned anywhere.

    You cultivate disgust and purposely seek to provoke people and then you throw up your hands like it was all some innocent misunderstanding when you are called on it. At least stick around for a good old fashioned flame war, because you know you love the attention.

  29. Eric @ CAMP on September 30, 2008 3:44 pm

    sweet, this blog is already big enough to have anonymous flames and “buy drugs” spam – cherokee is moving up in the world.

    Hey Michael, not sure if you will read this in time or not, and I can always just walk down, but just confirming that folks are meeting at Typo tonight.

    Eric

  30. Michael Sullivan on September 30, 2008 4:06 pm

    We will be there at seven. Hope to see you and anybody else that may be interested.

    Michael

  31. A homosexual on October 3, 2008 4:05 pm

    I am a homosexual and would like everyone to know that the people at Apop:

    1) Have never attempted to execute me.

    2) Have never attempted to round up my people into camps with the sole purpose of eliminating them.

    3) Have never made any anti-homosexual comments.

    4) Are actually friends of mine.

    Generally speaking, Nazis don’t like homosexuals. Maybe they are reform-Nazis…but then what is the point of being a progressive Fascist anyways?

    If it is admitted that they hang out and have been band members with Jews, African Americans, and Homosexuals I don’t really see how they could be Nazis. I mean, maybe they are just really bad at it?

    It seems that Evan really isn’t in the business of listening to them. He only wants to present “evidence” of Nazi leanings but ignores the facts that oppose his point of view.

    If you could, Evan, please explain why they are friends with all of these groups that Nazis generally hate. Do you have one? Is it some sort of plot by them? Am I being lured into a trap?

    The only thing you’ll probably say in response is that either I am lying about being a homosexual or that they are pretending to be a homosexual in order to garner sympathy. If you, indeed, decide to go this route you will prove to everyone that you are delusional beyond all comprehension.

    Anyone that knows them in real life, not your twisted rumor-mill fantasy, knows that they are far from being Nazis of any sort. But, again, as they have said, you don’t have the guts to get to know them in real life. You need an enemy, you want an enemy, and you have your pathetic little crusade.

    As for their materials:

    You bark and whine about them having Nazi materials, but then you are silent when it is known that they have plenty of pro-black, pro-homosexual, and pro-Jew materials. They have works by Communists, Anarchists, Liberals, Conservatives..etc..etc..

    You don’t seem to want to weigh this against your facts. I guess it doesn’t matter to you? Is it not irrational to call someone a Nazi when they say they have a dedication to free speech and then prove it by having a huge variety of materials?

    Is it rational to call them Nazis when the culture of punks is well-understood? That forms of humor involving ironically offensive remarks are well-understood and used in mainstream venues? Have you ever watched Comedy Central? Have you ever seen Chris Rock’s standup? Do you know anything about humor?

    You seem to just want them to be Nazis, you don’t have any other enemies you could possibly stand a chance against. Your impotence needs to be resolved with an enemy you have some chance of making an impact against. At least you can throw bricks through a storefront and get away with it, you wouldn’t be so lucky with the U.S. Government.

    Sad, sad, sad.

  32. Adam on July 13, 2009 6:39 pm

    a couple of things:

    1) i’m also gay and i L-O-V-E APOP records. unfortuanately i don’t live in STL right now but every time i come home i make it a point to stop in a buy something. i don’t know the owners personally but they’ve been perfect gentle-people to me each time i’m visited. personally i enjoy some bad taste and sarcasm, but i also have a sense of humor. i may not be inclined to take it as far as others, but i don’t presume to dictate etiquette either. i am nothing but thankfull for APOP records.

    2) the picture at the top of this post was taken at the downtown mall in charlottesville VA (i know because i live here at the moment). the downtown mall is quite nice, but it is more of a city-wide attraction than a neighborhood commercial district (c-ville population = ~40K) and seems (for lack of a better generalization) snooty to me. there are lots of wine bars, coffee shops, boutique stores, and fancy restaurants, but not much in the way of groceries (just a CVS), laundry (none), affordable dining (a couple), affordable clothing (none), a silk-screenery (none), a record store (none) etc. and due to its destination-ness it sometimes gets uncomfortably crowded.

    my hope is that cherokee becomes more of a neighborhood hub than a destination, but then again i don’t live there… yet!

  33. James on July 16, 2009 1:35 pm

    I just want to thank those who have posted helpful thoughts and insights on this thread and for showing why so many people are drawn to Cherokee in the first place. For whatever concerns we have, there is a very real desire to avoid the destructive tendencies towards gentrification and to find creative solutions to maintain the diversity and natural community already in the area. It is tiresome to hear so many polarized, divisive opinions on every post (it seems), but a huge thank you to everyone who keeps returning to the hope that the area will grow without gentrifying and change without homogenizing the businesses and residents. It is possible or we wouldn’t all stay here even when there are near-constant obstacles, arguments and overall tension. As a relatively new resident, thank you.

  34. EB on August 11, 2009 5:01 pm

    Apop & anyone else offended by Evan – take everything he says with a grain of salt.

    My husband runs an online blog & forum and if there is one thing I found out after he started it is that there is always someone online who likes to fan the flames & get everyone worked up – here, that person is Evan.

    Of course Evan would never come to your store and confront you to your face, or have the decency to inquire about what he has heard on the street or apparently seen displayed in your windows. He can hide behind the safety of his computer and sling his damaging remarks without any real worry of repercussion so why not sit in judgement on everyone – who’s to stop him?

    Evan – to quote your last post “You cultivate disgust and purposely seek to provoke people and then you throw up your hands like it was all some innocent misunderstanding when you are called on it. At least stick around for a good old fashioned flame war, because you know you love the attention.”

    Wait – Isn’t cultivating disgust and purposely seeking to provoke people exactly what your posts are doing? And aren’t you afraid to stick around for a good old fashioned flame war if you are only willing to confront Apop online and not to their face? And, I think you do love the attention and that is exactly why you are getting everyone all worked up. So see, you are no better.

    Evan, you should take a good look at everything you have done over the course of your entire life and I am sure there is something another person would find to be offensive or wrong. My point being that nobody is perfect and not everyone is the same. If everyone beleived the same thing what would be the need for people to look different or live in different areas or eat different foods or wear different clothes, etc., etc.? Diversity is exactly what Cherokee street is all about and Apop embraces that same mentality.

    I think shops who don’t crumble under the pressure of offering only “PC” goods that won’t offend anyone have more intengrity in their little pinky finger than someone like Evan would have in their entire body.

    So, Apop don’t let this narrow-minded person get you down – keep doing what you are doing and intelligent, reasonable people will come no matter what idiots online say.

  35. Eddy1701 on August 14, 2009 12:13 am

    I for one have little respect for APOP, even if I am required by principle to refrain from advocating censorship. We all know what Nazis really want, to subjugate people of color and kill anyone who stands in their way. They did it in WWII and materials like the Turner Diaries are to be believed, they will do it again if they get the chance. Saint Louis already has a big enough problem with the far right as it is, and it baffles and scares me that anyone would see fit to give it quarter.

  36. scott on August 18, 2009 2:13 pm

    there are hip bars and yuppies on Cherokee St? Where? I must have missed that.

  37. bob on January 19, 2010 10:01 am

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123992318352327147.html

    not sure this link is working…can we do something like this for artist housing/space around cherokee on some of the blocks around Cherokee ?

  38. Alissa on January 20, 2010 8:46 am

    That’s a GREAT point, Bob. Generally, our neighborhood’s growth has been driven by commercial reinvestment, not residential. A lot of neighbors have been recognizing this fact, especially recently. It’s definitely the best way to stabilize the entire area, not just Cherokee proper.

    Unfortunately, the area around Cherokee isn’t served by a community development corporation like the group that drove the Cleveland development. It’s a big gaping hole in the reinvestment in our community (the Dutchtown South CC does amazing work, but they center more around Meremec).

    Some of us have started to discuss this, and I think that this conversation will continue and expand as the streetscaping project commences.

  39. bob on January 20, 2010 11:19 am

    yes-but a “real developer/ment” is not what i was thinking. There’s a lot of artist’s working w/o a development organization in Detroit. They are making things happen. I think my pointing out such things as going on in Detroit area was to say “Look St.Louis(low income artist types)-we’ve had lots of unused buildings for years-and now more with this economy-let’s act”- not wait for a developer or development plan-more grass roots-not so big-just get a ball rolling and momentum will come into play. A simple meeting of minds-artists getting together. Find out who’s renting in area or wants to- what they have to spend, etc. There’s privately owned buildings, LRA buildings. bank owned, etc. I know of at least one block just off Cherokee that has 8 unused(private, bank, LRA) properties. If artist got together…who knows what could happen. When Developers get the idea and act on it-the low income artists won’t have a chance. The point of what’s going on in Detroit , and other places is that artists are getting in at the bottom and OWNING-not like some did on Washington Av—renting then having to leave once developers came in. enough for now-it’s time to work

  40. Bert on January 20, 2010 11:31 am

    hey, howabout we git tagetha and fixup all them buildings with scrounged materials-can be done

    legal like–check out Phoenix Commotion in huntsville tx

    http://www.phoenixcommotion.com/

  41. Jeff on January 22, 2010 9:52 am

    I run STL-Style (STYLEhouse) at 3155 Cherokee, and as a relative newbie on the street. So far we are thrilled to be here. One thing Cherokee Street desperately needs in TRANSIT. The commercial district grew up and thrived in the age of streetcars. Now, there’s not even a bus line. An urban street is not complete without connections to transit. Certainly there are many transit-dependent residents and shoppers in the neighborhood, and re-introducing a transit line to the district is akin to pumping blood through its veins. At the very least, the Cherokee bus line needs to be restored (ideally, I’d love to see a streetcar line). If/when the South Side MetroLink line ever gets rolling, it will be a huge boon for the district (Jefferson is the designated alignment).

    Please feel free to stop by our shop. Our hours are sporadic for now, but I’m there most afternoons and I’d like to meet the boyz and girlz in the hood.

  42. froto on January 22, 2010 10:00 am

    yes, yes…maybe a biofuel shuttle of some kind to start…maybe not wait for Broke-state or Bi-State or whatever they’re called. Get one of those trucks like they have in India(?) all painted up and trinkets all over them…or even a flatbed truck with benches(seatbelts,chair lift too)…hmmm

  43. mad dog on January 22, 2010 10:40 pm

    can you believe cherokee is getting a hackerspace! this snowball has momentum and can’t be stopped-keep it coming st.louis

  44. Darwin on January 26, 2010 12:50 pm

    Last night I saw the future of Cherokee. It’s good. It’s not written in stone-more like pancake batter…but it’s cooking up just fine. I fear if i mention what i saw it may vanish-poof it’s gone. I’ll just say- there will always be weeds in the sidewalk cracks…but they make a great salad and at some point that pancake may need to be flipped.

  45. woodenhead on January 28, 2010 2:45 pm

    isn’t there some biodiesel kids over in that neck of the woods? maybe a biodiesel shuttle with some locally made biodiesel for Cherokee.

  46. Froto on January 28, 2010 4:59 pm

    isn’t that stuff dangerous Woodenhead ?

  47. woodenhead on January 29, 2010 4:16 pm

    no, no. Biodiesel is perfectly safe. there are moments in the processing that need to have certain safety procedures met but for the end user, the shuttle, it’s even safer than petrol diesel and much safer than gasoline.

  48. kennylolenny on January 29, 2010 6:16 pm

    future of Cherokee street, huh? were there dancing minstrels? i think that would fun. dancing. and being a minstrel.

  49. Darwin on January 30, 2010 8:08 pm

    dancing minstrels? …maybe for the annual PANCAKE COOK OFF and fruit crate derby races-where we close the street off and race our crate contraptions and let the minstrels dance

  50. kennylolenny on January 30, 2010 11:56 pm

    what about the chicken coop races that other dude was planning? close Cherokee St for an afternoon of tall bikes and chicken coop races

  51. Darwin on January 31, 2010 11:04 am

    yes,yes,that was a nice idea…but why copy Austin…or was it an original idea…i no remember. Sooooo…urban farms…fruit crates…ya get it? i like the idea of coffin races also-but man-i think someones do’n that already-maybe there’s noth’n new and we should go with pancake fest/feast and coffin races and …i got it—coffin races for Day of the Dead fest—be there!!!!

  52. woodenhead on February 3, 2010 1:55 pm

    bee hive races?

  53. bob on February 3, 2010 6:14 pm

    bee hives? no,no- we won’t have such fuckery. coffin races or chicken coop races-my vote goes with the coops I think. What fun building “derby racers” looking like chicken coops…which have few limits as far as design.

  54. kennylolenny on February 5, 2010 4:32 pm

    well will the chicken coop racers at least have chickens in them? these would be fun ideas to close off the street for. we can think of lots of prize categories.

  55. Jason Hodge on February 6, 2010 3:08 am

    Hello everyone,

    Let me introduce myself, I am a tattoo artist and interested buisness owner in your neighborhood. I am not your typical tattoo artist. I worked in the toy and game industry for many years as an artist and sculptor. I then proceeded to craft merchandise for many national touring bands. Which lead me to my one true passion, is to TATTOO!

    Let me explain what I am trying to accomplish. I am currently trying to get support for my tattoo shop in 904 cherokee st. On the second floor of Mr. Jimi Gunn’s Brewhouse Music Studio. My shop will have no store front, no signage, be pure appointment only, focusing on servicing STL bands and high profile clientele. This will be the first entirely disposable shop in the STL, meaning all tattoo or piercing gear is single use. Cutting down on any contamination and limiting blood borne pathogens. My plan over the next 5 years is:
    1: To add a beauty salon, I am going to cosmetology school in the fall.
    2. Open a tattoo supply warehouse. Catering to online and local sales.
    3. This is the big one. Get my AP credidation to have tattoo and body piercing recognized as a tradeskill. That means lots of lobbying in Jefferson City. The goal of this is to open the states first tattoo and body piercing technical collage.

    I am also working towards having a concert venue on the third floor of the same building and have the investors to back both these ideas. My main problem is everything rides on Mr. Gunn’s buisnesses also, as almost all of my future clients are members of the bands he has practice in this building or friends of those musicians.

    I and the other invested parties will be going door to door, buisness to buisness, and becoming active in civic issues in your neighborhood. I will provide an info sheet giving more details to our plans with 904 Cherokee St. I look forward to meeting any and all of you, listening to your concerns, and hopefully becoming friends over the next 5 years.

    So over the next few weeks I look forward to meeting you, going to Association Meetings, helping the community in any way I can, and building the foundation to my shop. Also if you see a tall, purple with black haired, tattooed, fellow walking around in a suit, feel free to stop me and say hi…

    Sincerly,
    Jason Hodge
    Hopeful Owner of Symbiotic Studios and The Cauldron at Lemp

  56. bob on February 6, 2010 9:26 am

    Re: the coop racers-well, I think maybe chickens-live chickens could be seen as egg layer abuse so I think maybe RUBBER chickens would be fine. In Chicken Alaska you get a free rubber chicken w/a fill up which has NOTHING to do w/us…I’ll order a 100 rubber chicken and throw them to the crowd as I race down Cherokee to cross the finish line-marked w/a row of colorfull plastic(made from hemp) eggs

  57. kennylolenny on February 6, 2010 10:48 pm

    you think your going to make it to the finish line before i do? it’s gonna be me throwing the rubber chickens dude. but i gotta appreciate the hemp-plastic eggs. you’ve truly touched my soul.

  58. sockpuppet on February 8, 2010 9:56 am

    chickens-ya want chickens-ya go rescue them feathered friends-them girly hens runnin round bolozone from them trustafarians—d-dang, thems may not all be hens

  59. woodenhead on February 12, 2010 11:39 pm

    they ate them chickens, well half of em, half the chickens i mean, i mean half the number of chicken not half a chicken. well maybe somebody ate a half and somebody else ate the other half. but 4 whole chickens were eaten. Oh, and at least of the eaten ones was a rooster.

  60. bert on February 13, 2010 10:00 am

    are you saying a rooster is a chicken but a chicken’s not a rooster…I mean and who eats half a chicken-and which half do they eat-and wow,freak the people in the Donner Party ate all their friends all the soft parts anyway

  61. nevertidy on February 22, 2010 10:58 am

    i too see-feel a fleet…..
    one is moving feet ( a la flinstones)
    one or a few’s biodeesl
    one is tall bike squad (we got the welder if you got the notion)
    trikes and trailers and pedicabs abound
    then… there IS the ** FOOTBEAT **
    song soul patrol
    lace garterbelts replacing thems that got gunnholsters
    roads closed so chickens can byyOOK!
    crisscross ‘em
    and our hearts are a big bee hive
    ollyollyincomefreecrosspollenatemewebee
    taaaaaaaaxi!!!!! can i get a

    “Something is happening”

  62. ocilacotac on February 23, 2010 1:45 am

    well the other day i was walking down Cherokee
    an’ i felt a beat
    the beat of the groovy people
    and their sway
    and it was nice
    it was good

    made me think of mid summer nights
    hot and sweaty in STL,
    even being February

    your right, something is happening

  63. kennylolenny on February 23, 2010 2:06 am

    what i wouldn’t give for a hot and sweaty summer night right about now!
    walk down Cherokee with an orange soda and a veggie burrito. some groovy music happening on the corners, some tall bikes riding by, those dancing minstrels, oh summer, where art thou?
    Cherokee is happening.

  64. sockpuppet on February 23, 2010 9:25 am

    yes,yes, all is good when it’s hot and sweaty and It’s like a dream ya get to live when the sun comes up and the birds start chirping and bees start a buzz’n aaaaand eggs start a roll’n out the nesting boxes and the gilz all do’n yoga all winter look’n so good—I’ll be a liv’n at the corner of Cali and Cherokee w/a veggie burrito half in /half out

  65. bob on February 23, 2010 9:52 am

    You all seem to see things that aren’t there. Like yellow bricks paving the road- well did you notice the man behind the curtain…I think it’s just Craig Schmid – I bought my glasses where he bought his and I just don’t see it.

  66. AVD on February 23, 2010 4:05 pm

    Re: Bob & Allissa’s convo-

    Paducah, KY has an interesting program along similar lines, with seemingly a lot of buy in from the city and lenders. http://www.paducaharts.com/about_the_program.php

  67. ocilacotac on February 23, 2010 4:46 pm

    oh i’ve seen your yellow bricks and the roads they define
    i prefer the green glazed bricks shine
    the reflections and
    the suggestions
    of all the happenings in time

  68. Darwin on February 23, 2010 6:32 pm

    street paving-you got me going now-remove the asphalt and expose the brick pavers and let the others follow the yellow brick road to lala land while we watch the weeds grow in the sidewalk cracks… and what’s the deal with that agri-yoga at CAMP…is that yoga for farmers…

  69. yes yes on March 24, 2010 11:49 pm

    Bob, we need to take over Cherokee St with or with out Craig Schmid, he is nothing but an employee of the tax payers, and make Cherokee St an exclusive artist crib recognized by St. Louisans and nationwide.

  70. sockpuppet on March 25, 2010 3:38 pm

    I 2nd that…or is that 3rd…the revolution won’t be televised…dang-the transformation won’t be televised. We just need to do it- All do our little piece-like a quilt-it will be huge and they’ll wonder how it happened and try to duplicate it other places but won’t be able to because it’s the people-us-individuals that make it. You all should buy up the 4 vacant buildings just n. of the casaloma on ohio-and do that lra lot there as community garden.

  71. bob on March 25, 2010 10:06 pm

    yes folks-we need to start on the spokes of this wheel or it isn’t going to roll far. and while we’re at it-all DEVELOPERS should be asked to register and be issued those dog training collars-and all the artists and anyone riding a bicycle gets to have the remotes.

  72. Wick on June 3, 2010 10:46 pm

    Is there any plan to make Cherokee St. a desirable area or is it all talk? Cherokee east of Jefferson is looking much better, but west of Jefferson is pretty poor looking. The addition of Blackbear Bakery and Foam are a great start, but it is not going to be enough to change the overall apperance of the historic street. Does anyone think it would be possible to get rid of the rent-a-center that plays rap music during the day? And why does Craig Schmid allow so many mexican restuarants to open up? I enjoy mexican food, but 5 on one block is ridiculous. I think Cherokee has great potential, and as a real estate developer investing in the neighborhood there is nothing I would like more than to see a massive transformation, but the current leadership set in place lacks the vision and the intestinal fortitude to make Cherokee better than it has ever been before. The question is…who wants to step up to the challenge???

  73. JM on June 4, 2010 9:10 am

    Organic development takes time. Improvements are already evident, but they are still in progress. I think everyone would agree Cherokee west of Jefferson has improved and I don’t think many would deny that there is room for continued improvement. Glad you’re along for the ride here!

    It would be illegal to place a limit on how many mexican restaurants could open within one block. As a developer, I’m surprised you would think Schmid would have control over that.

  74. sockpuppet on June 4, 2010 5:57 pm

    WICK is not real right? Someone made him up right? I’m sorry, maybe he IS a developer and recently fell off a ladder…the ladder to his wagon

  75. Ben West on June 9, 2010 12:08 pm

    @Wick It is hard for me to believe your comments are sincere. The Hispanic residents and business owners have every right to live and work wherever they please, or more importantly wherever they can secure space, just like everyone else. To suggest the alderman should impose race-based quotas is absurd at best.

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